Lincoln Makes Great Cars - Deal With It

"MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner" (montegoman562) 10/09/2013 at 11:31 • Filed to: LINCOLN, GREAT CARS, DEAL WITH IT

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Lincoln makes great cars. It's true. I didn't say they were awe-inspiring cars. I didn't say they were very "Jalop" in nature. I didn't say they were performance cars. I DID say they were great cars.

Lincoln makes great passenger cars. That's what they are trying to do. There isn't a Lincoln version of the Mustang for a reason - that's not the direction they are trying to go (even if we think it should be).

Let's review Lincoln's model line up in comparison to it's downgraded Ford counterpart.

MKZ - Fusion

MKX - Edge

MKS - Taurus

MKT - Taurflexplorer (new word, I like it. It's pronounced Taur-Flex-Plorer)

Navigator - Expedition

So the MKZ is a classed up version of the Fusion. We love the Fusion, let's start liking it's cousin.

The MKX is the Edge. It's a boring crossover built on an aging platform (last gen Fusion). But it's solid, there's nothing really wrong with it. And a new Edge is reported to be coming in 2015 so I expect a Lincoln version shortly after or at the same time.

The MKS is the Taurus. We love the Taurus, especially in SHO format (engine and AWD available in MKS). Stop hating the MKS.

The MKT is a Taurflexplorer (I just made that word up above but it's really growing on me). All of those are damn solid vehicles, so despite it's styling which a lot of people associate with a hearse - it's a great almost wagon, and I know you all love wagons.

The Navigator - Apparently the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy is in place with this vehicle. It's nothing to jump around about, but it's nicer than an Expedition and equally capable (despite it's frequent mall trips).

There are no manual transmissions in the lineup. There are no performance trims like Cadillac does with the V or BMW does with M. They are just passenger cars. And they do EXACTLY what they are supposed to. They class up the Ford version and drive just as reliably. If you aren't a fan of the style or designs it's a personal opinion. Sure you're entitled to it but it doesn't mean the cars don't WORK. They do.

So please everyone. Remember that these are not bad cars. They are just as good as their Ford counterparts, even if they may be overpriced (I'm looking at you upcoming MKZ Black Edition).

The man in the iron mask > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:34

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and this one beats all of those

PelicanHazard > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:36

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Sure, but all of them minus MKZ look terrible.

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:38

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While I wouldn't say they make bad cars...I don't think they make "great" cars. IMO the trucks and crossovers look dated. I have a hard time justifying the MKX's premium over the Taurus...the MKZ is quite nice at least it can be had with a V6 which you can't get in the Fusion. I think the issue is Lincoln could do better, and we all know they can do better. Just like Acura, both are tier 2 luxury automakers that are struggling, they make "good" cars but just aren't terribly compelling given the market.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > The man in the iron mask 10/09/2013 at 11:39

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It most definitely does.

Like I said, Lincoln isn't building performance cars.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > PelicanHazard 10/09/2013 at 11:40

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2nd to last paragraph.

I hear ya!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 11:42

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The question is what determines a "Great" passenger car.

Not a great performance car.

They are reliable, comfortable, and do what they are supposed to do. Like I said the price bump can be considered "overpriced" but they are still great at what they are supposed to do, which is to be dressed up versions of cars we already think do a great job.

The man in the iron mask > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:42

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oh i didnt read it all through, just to make clear, im no chevy or ford guy, i like they give the manual gearbox option in that one.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > The man in the iron mask 10/09/2013 at 11:43

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Definitely. I like that they give a PERFORMANCE option, I'd even take it in automatic if Lincoln would build a performance line.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > PelicanHazard 10/09/2013 at 11:43

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I'm of mixed opinion on them in general. I asked my mom just yesterday about the MKS (non car person) and she said she didn't like it.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:45

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Ford makes decent cars, Lincoln makes them ugly.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 10/09/2013 at 11:48

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To quote what I wrote above:

If you aren't a fan of the style or designs it's a personal opinion.

Doesn't make the car any less great than the Ford version.

Who needs sway bars anyway > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:48

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Completely agree and I actually like the styling on most of them. I'm actually looking forward to seeing the MKC , because if it looks like the concept it will be awesome and even though I would normally only buy an suv for myself if it had rolling windows and solid axles, for my GF or mum I would totally recommend it, due to it being an even better looking Escape.

El Relámpago(LZone) - Humanity First! > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:48

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Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:48

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I agree that Lincoln's models on a base level serve their intended purpose well. But as a "luxury" car maker, I think it needs to go beyond that. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on the semantics. Performance aside, I think a "great" car should stand out it the field of competitors. The "great" car is the one you should buy when you look at the options. For your average car buyer the MKZ might be worth the money given the competition...not so sure about the Navigator.

Victorious Secret > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:49

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Lincoln does not make great cars...

They make average cars. Compared to say...the Lexus ES? No, the MKZ is not great. Compared to the Escalade? No the Navigator is not great. Compared to the 300? No, the MKS is not great.

Lincoln isn't even winning in the badge engineering segment. Lincoln doesn't win in any segments save with the MKZ, and thats just barely relevant because its new and its a new design direction.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:49

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They cost more...

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Who needs sway bars anyway 10/09/2013 at 11:49

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IMO Drastically better looking Escape.

Oh and with a tire upgrade the MKZ can run down 70,000 bmw's on a slalom.

Jayhawk Jake > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 11:51

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No. They aren't great. They aren't bad, but they certainly aren't great.

I might give you the MKZ, but it's just a gussied up Fusion. That's not great, but it's a pretty good car that I'd never buy because why the hell would I pay a premium over a Fusion which is already a good car.

The MKX is literally an Edge with a new front and back bit, but they are virtually indistinguishable from each other. My dad has an Edge in a fairly high trim, and I'll agree with you: it's a great car. However, as a Lincoln? It's badge engineering at its worst, why anyone buys this over an Edge is beyond me.

The MKS is a good car, but only because the Taurus is. Once again, there isn't nearly enough to differentiate it from the Taurus to make it great. It's worse by association, just like the MKX

The MKT? Good god is this thing ugly and huge. It's not a good car to begin with, why you would buy this over an Explorer is beyond me.

The Navigator? A restyled Expedition, it's dated. What's the point of it?

My issue with Lincoln isn't that they are bad cars, it's that they aren't any better than the Fords that they so clearly are based on. At least when GM turns a Chevy into a Buick it changes them enough that there are distinct differences

This:

This:

And This:

All hail from the same platform and yet each are distinct, especially in the interior. If you sat in an XTS then moved into a Malibu you wouldn't think you were in the same car, which isn't true for Lincoln.

Lincoln sucks in its current form. I want to see Lincoln do something new or different, not just slap an ugly moustache onto a Fusion and charge $8,000 for the favor.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 11:52

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That seems at least like a logical reason to list them as "Good" instead of "Great". I can respect the difference of opinion.

One last point I'd make is that the average car buyer wouldn't look at a Navigator lol.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 10/09/2013 at 11:52

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And you get a classied up Ford.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jayhawk Jake 10/09/2013 at 11:56

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I think you are seeing their close connection to the Ford as a negative where I see it as a positive. I know the Ford's are great cars and do a great job. I know the interior is nicer and the outside has some extra shinny bits.

Is it enough to justify the expense, probably not but that doesn't make it a bad car. It just makes it an over-priced one.

Cherry_man1 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:04

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We need a Lincoln needs a Mustang based car...lets call it the Cougar? Pay some homage?

Jayhawk Jake > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:09

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Being overpriced makes it bad. How does that not make it bad to you?

Functionally, they aren't bad cars. But taken as a whole, they are terrible value, and that takes away from whatever good car is underneath. Saying that they are good is like saying a cubic zirconium is just as good as a diamond. They both look the same, they both serve the same purpose, but one is an impostor. Lincolns pretend to be luxury cars when in reality they are literally just Fords. That makes them terrible to me, that's so terrible that it actually angers me because I find it offensive that Ford has the gall to sell something that's hardly even trying to be better than its roots.

I don't think I'd be nearly as bothered if Lincoln did anything original. Sure, the XTS may just be a gussied up Malibu, but Cadillac also offers the ATS and the CTS, both of which are fantastic cars on their own, rather than simply gussied up Chevrolets. Lexus has a bunch of gussied up Toyotas, yes, but they've also done original cars like the LFA and IS-F. Even Acura, who gets knocked for charging a premium for a Civic does some interesting things with headlights and other gadgetry in their cars that makes them unique from their roots, not to mention the NSX on the way. And Audi, often chided for just being gussied up VWs, offers the Quattro system that you can't get on many of their root VWs.

So you're right I suppose, Lincoln doesn't make bad cars. But that's because Lincoln doesn't make anything; Ford makes really good cars.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Cherry_man1 10/09/2013 at 12:13

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I think the plan was to call it an MKR.

I don't know that they'll want to put a Mercury name on a Lincoln.

Even though old Mercury's had much better names than all the current Lincoln ones.

Cherry_man1 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:15

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Yes, but with that name they could instil some sort of nostalgia or name it the Continental Coupe GT or something along those lines.

AMC/Renauledge > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:31

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Yes. In the sense that most cars these days, taken in the context of history, are pretty great.

Compared to the competition? Absolutely not.

Lincoln's most competitive luxury car isn't as good as Lexus's least competitive model - the ES. The MKX isn't as good as the RX. And while the Taurus is really a downmarket MKS (since the Lincoln bowed a year before the new Taurus), it's utterly forgettable, still rides a 15 year-old Volvo platform, and offers no real competitive advantages over its set. The XTS and RLX absolutely blow it out of the water.

The MKT is hideous and just does not sell because it's aimed at no market in particular and doesn't bring anything unique to the market except being an especially ugly luxury station wagon that drives - not like a car-bases station wagon - like a big CUV.

The Navigator is so hopelessly out-of-date, it's absurd. The brace-face update from 5 years ago made a decent vehicle - at the time - exceedingly fussy and ugly. And it's been a total sales dud for years now. Cadillac will have redone the Escalade TWICE between Navigator redesigns.

The Lincoln lineup itself is a stylistic and brand identity disaster. The Navigator still clings to its brace-face design from the Continental MkX and original MKX era. The MKX is still showing the MKR-inspired "wings" design theme. And a ton of Ford Edge body panels. The MKS/T have transitioned from the wings theme to the baleen whale look at the front. And then there's the new MKZ nose.

What's more, Lincoln is vacillating between tail themes, too. First, Lincoln was going back to the wall-to-wall taillight look with the original MKX. Yet the Zephyr/MKZ debuted at the same time with wide, blocky units. They got wider in the '10 facelift, but didn't reach wall-to-wall until the '13 redo, looking a lot like the original MKX's.

The MKX started out wall-to-wall and then the taillights got shortened for '10 into the blocky units that the facelifted MKZ was moving away from.

The MKT has always had wall-to-wall taillights, while the MKS has vertical units like the Jaguar XJ, or slimmer versions of the '98-11 Town Car.

And the Navigator's taillights got stretched horizontally, but in the cheapest-looking, most tacked-on, stick-reflectors-on-the-tailgate sort of way.

The cars themselves are good, but they bring nothing unique or special to the market. The market doesn't need anything Lincoln has to offer. The brand's message is totally muddled. The design language is totally muddled. The sectors of the market they're trying to address are muddled. Ford's financial commitment to the brand is muddled. The direction they're trying to take Lincoln is muddled.

None of that is what I'd call "great".

HammerheadFistpunch > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:33

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Peer comparison...

Honuracer > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:33

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The current crop of cars aren't bad, but there are a few things holding Lincoln back: Too much badge engineering. Lincoln needs a premium sedan of its own. Next, it needs to get away from the alphanumerics. Lincoln has a great heritage and tons of love for nameplates like Continental and Town Car (and they could even re-capture Capri and use it to label a premium coupe).

CobraJoe > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:40

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I might be the strange one here, but I agree with you.

Lincoln's newer stuff is really good. Stuff that I'd love to drive day in and out (when I'm not driving my project car that is). The MKS with the Ecoboost is high on my want list.

But that's only half of what they need to do. Now they need to make everyone aware of the great cars they make. There needs to be something special for people to take notice. Something for people to lust for. There needs to be a halo car. I don't think it matters if it's a performance car or a ultra luxury car or some combination of the two, but they need to be able to point at something and say "That is what we do".

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > CobraJoe 10/09/2013 at 12:43

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I KNEW THERE WERE MORE OUT THERE! Hahaha

Thanks CobraJoe. I think you're right about a top level car and honestly everything but the Navigator(MPGs!) I would take as a DD in a heart beat.

CobraJoe > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 12:56

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Personally, I'd avoid the trucks and trucklets, I'm not much for the large vehicles.

But the only thing I could really fault Lincoln for now is being too conservative, both in styling and in vehicle options. They are all worth the upgrades over Ford, but they are still clearly competitors with the Ford versions. And they styling, they aren't really that distinctive other than the mustache on the front (which I really don't mind). I'm not sure what they should change, but I'd like to have them seem more special than they are.

BarryDanger > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 13:04

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Lincoln is still making cars for the elderly. All of the buttons and displays seemed to pander to old people in that they are way too simplistic and traditionally laid out. Lexus has their little mouse thing, BMW has whatever they use for iDrive these days and Cadillac failed miserably with the CUE system. Even if the systems come off as overly complex or completely counter-intuitive, at least they are trying to push the envelope with respect to driver interfaces. Now that I think about it, Lincoln isn't trying to 'push the envelope' in anything they are doing, they use re-skinned cars with disguised technology and offer it up as an original idea. I am not here to offer up a solution but at least try to differentiate yourself from Ford...

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > BarryDanger 10/09/2013 at 13:11

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I'd rather be solid, dependable, and targeted at old people then designed for the young and fall on my face.

Just saying...old people buy cars too.

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 13:21

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Psst...relevant to your post. :)

http://jalopnik.com/2013-lincoln-m…

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MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 13:37

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Reading! I also have your automatch answers your questions open!

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 13:38

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Ha! Thanks for reading. :)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 13:48

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Well you're reading my Lincoln propaganda rubbish so I thought it was only fair haha.

did you hear my roaring Mercury yesterday?

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 13:48

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I did...well done!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 13:51

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Thank you!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 14:06

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Good read. I also read through your leasing post. I just had to talk a friend who tends to do 18k miles a year and wanted to be able to do the occasional cross country trip. No way a lease was feasible. He's also a fan of value. If he spends money on something he wants to get money back out of it. All this added up to him buying a solid used car instead of a lease...he's very happy so far.

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 14:07

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Thanks Oppo bro! :)

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 14:09

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If only all the internet (even the FP) was this friendly. We came from a disagreement in a different thread on this post lol.

Tom McParland > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 14:13

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I wouldn't call that necessarily a disagreement but a good debate on the merits of a specific brand in the marketplace, nothing personal ...just car-guys talking. That is what makes Oppo great, we can have civil debates and support each other at the same time.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Tom McParland 10/09/2013 at 14:13

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Nailed it.

911e46z06 > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 15:41

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'Great' is a pretty strong word

SpeedSix > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 10/09/2013 at 17:45

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I can justify liking the MKZ, even if it's only because of the sliding glass roof and the full-width tailights.